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Use of force

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redwings

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Use of force

Post by redwings on Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:37 pm

Here is the video on the incident in brampton.  I can see charges being laid against the guard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZiFfsVZkjk
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DavidJ

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Re: Use of force

Post by DavidJ on Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:02 am

Use of Force

There is a reason police, special constables, CBSA and other law enforcement entities get in depth use of force training. An element of this training is assessing and planing a response. 

Use of force starts with assessing the situation (all elements) upon approaching/initiating/ or however one becomes engaged in a situation. You need to know what is/has/about to happen. Tactical communications has to be part of the process. Tactical communication includes listening and digesting what you have heard. Then using that to form you best plan of action.

Sometimes, even for police, the best plan of action is to back off; reassess and form a better plan of action. For security guards this might very well mean calling and then waiting for police to deal with the situation. For police this may mean waiting for back-up officers to arrive before continuing.

Security guards in most situations do not have the resources, whether that be additional guards, use of force tools or a means to call for assistance, once engaged. You must be very cognoscente of that! You might very well become entangled in a fight for your life once you are engaged in a situation. 

Shop-lifting/theft, mischief or trespassing are all offenses, that at the end of the day, are not and should never become a situation where dealing with it escalates to a life threatening/serious injury outcome. These situations can wait for better odds in the guard's favor (i.e. more guards or police). 

In cases of mentally ill people or anyone demonstrating potential for violence, keeping others out of harms way is as or more important than engaging the threat. If the guard(s) become a victim and are incapacitated they are of no use to anyone. In such cases a prompt call to the police with detailed information will be the best plan of action.

Security guards ARE NOT bound by law to risk their lives or limbs. You are bound to exercise due diligence in how you respond and engage in incidents. You are open for law suits and charges if you make a mistake. 

Good solid training and common sense beats assumption and bravado every time!


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David J
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Admin

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Re: Use of force

Post by Admin on Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:12 pm

DavidJ wrote:Use of Force

There is a reason police, special constables, CBSA and other law enforcement entities get in depth use of force training. An element of this training is assessing and planing a response. 

Use of force starts with assessing the situation (all elements) upon approaching/initiating/ or however one becomes engaged in a situation. You need to know what is/has/about to happen. Tactical communications has to be part of the process. Tactical communication includes listening and digesting what you have heard. Then using that to form you best plan of action.

Sometimes, even for police, the best plan of action is to back off; reassess and form a better plan of action. For security guards this might very well mean calling and then waiting for police to deal with the situation. For police this may mean waiting for back-up officers to arrive before continuing.

Security guards in most situations do not have the resources, whether that be additional guards, use of force tools or a means to call for assistance, once engaged. You must be very cognoscente of that! You might very well become entangled in a fight for your life once you are engaged in a situation. 

Shop-lifting/theft, mischief or trespassing are all offenses, that at the end of the day, are not and should never become a situation where dealing with it escalates to a life threatening/serious injury outcome. These situations can wait for better odds in the guard's favor (i.e. more guards or police). 

In cases of mentally ill people or anyone demonstrating potential for violence, keeping others out of harms way is as or more important than engaging the threat. If the guard(s) become a victim and are incapacitated they are of no use to anyone. In such cases a prompt call to the police with detailed information will be the best plan of action.

Security guards ARE NOT bound by law to risk their lives or limbs. You are bound to exercise due diligence in how you respond and engage in incidents. You are open for law suits and charges if you make a mistake. 

Good solid training and common sense beats assumption and bravado every time!
Great information David.
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BryanM35

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Re: Use of force

Post by BryanM35 on Tue May 05, 2015 6:23 am

Great information David. The concept of use of force not only goes with the police force and army force security guards are not less than military man. They can also use their force.
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Nightwatchman

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Verbal judo and respect of dignity

Post by Nightwatchman on Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:19 am

No vid. there now, YouTube message says: `account terminated' ...too bad, this could have been informative to me, however there 's David's post, thanks!

As for me, there has been many times around town when I have come very close to a possible aggravated assault charge in defending myself against threats, harassment, slander or baiting. So far so good, they were mostly drunk/high. Professional face prevailed(long before I started guarding) so that is a good thing. I feel personal face lost out, our laws are very weak here. Preponderance of evidence, is lacking, but that's another subject, society devolution.


Last edited by Nightwatchman on Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : parsing, gr)


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Semper paratus, semper vigilans
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BryanM35

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Re: Use of force

Post by BryanM35 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:13 am

Nightwatchman wrote:No vid. there now, YouTube message says: `account terminated' ...too bad, this could have been informative to me, however there 's David's post, thanks!

As for me, there has been many times around town when I have come very close to a possible aggravated assault charge in defending myself against threats, harassment, slander or baiting. So far so good, they were mostly drunk/high. Professional face prevailed(long before I started guarding) so that is a good thing. I feel personal face lost out, our laws are very weak here. Preponderance of evidence, is lacking, but that's another subject, society devolution.

You gave a very good link. I must appreciate. It would be very helpful for those who are willing to get a license.
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Nightwatchman

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link?

Post by Nightwatchman on Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:00 am

BryanM35 wrote:
Nightwatchman wrote:No vid. there now, YouTube message says: `account terminated' ...too bad, this could have been informative to me, however there 's David's post, thanks!

As for me, there has been many times around town when I have come very close to a possible aggravated assault charge in defending myself against threats, harassment, slander or baiting. So far so good, they were mostly drunk/high. Professional face prevailed(long before I started guarding) so that is a good thing. I feel personal face lost out, our laws are very weak here. Preponderance of evidence, is lacking, but that's another subject, society devolution.

You gave a very good link. I must appreciate. It would be very helpful for those who are willing to get a license.
Thank you, I have a feeling this might have been on another post of mine though.


Last edited by Nightwatchman on Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


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StevenWS

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Use Of Force

Post by StevenWS on Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:32 am

I agree with what you had to say DavidJ.

"Security guards ARE NOT bound by law to risk their lives or limbs."


But I find I can not stand by when someone needs help. I do realize I am taking a risk but I am willing to take the chance that my training and experience will overcome the situation at hand. 


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BryanM35

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Re: Use of force

Post by BryanM35 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:16 am

BryanM35 wrote:
Nightwatchman wrote:No vid. there now, YouTube message says: `account terminated' ...too bad, this could have been informative to me, however there 's David's post, thanks!

As for me, there has been many times around town when I have come very close to a possible aggravated assault charge in defending myself against threats, harassment, slander or baiting. So far so good, they were mostly drunk/high. Professional face prevailed(long before I started guarding) so that is a good thing. I feel personal face lost out, our laws are very weak here. Preponderance of evidence, is lacking, but that's another subject, society devolution.

You gave a very good link. I must appreciate. It would be very helpful for those who are willing to get a license.

Best of luck, waiting for your another post.
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Nightwatchman

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Re: Use of force

Post by Nightwatchman on Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:26 am

good morning, Bryan, all!

So, I find this to be a good link, for those applying for a position, and maintaining it once hired.

http://www.securityindustry.ca/security-guard-ethics.html


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BryanM35

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Re: Use of force

Post by BryanM35 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:46 am

Nightwatchman wrote:good morning, Bryan, all!

So, I find this to be a good link, for those applying for a position, and maintaining it once hired.

http://www.securityindustry.ca/security-guard-ethics.html

Good Morning, No doubt it is a good link. These 10 codes of ethics are defined very clearly and I think these 10 codes of ethics are enough to provide right guidance to security Officers.
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Admin
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Re: Use of force

Post by Admin on Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:26 pm

Looks good.
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DavidJ

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Re: Use of force

Post by DavidJ on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:19 pm

Looking at Ontario, as that is where I am, training is poor to midland at best for security guards. Particularly in the area of use of force and self defense. Guards are turned out a dime a dozen and their heads filled with delusions of police style crime fighting.

Some guards get (very) lucky when the jump into these situations. Most gun toting, pepper spray squirting, baton waving, taser sapping police officers wait for back up. Why? BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE TRAINED TO DO!


As I have mentions in prior posts I spent over 30 years as a university special constable in Ontario. My training, use of force in particular, was with the local PD and was their use of force program as set by the Ontario Police College. It included all aspects - tactical communications, sizing up the situation (persons there. where you are, where is back up....and more), hand to hand, baton, OC spray,edged weapons, firearms, in class and play out scenarios. This training is repeated to the point it becomes ingrained.

I am retired and now do some security work part time. I am no longer a S/Cst - peace officer and I KNOW it! You cross that line and you can be in a world of hurt and or trouble.


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Re: Use of force

Post by Admin on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:42 pm

David. Why not use your experance to help improve the security industry instead of giving up on it as a increasing valuable tool to "assist" policing?

The standards will increase and so will the duties. The agancies and security guards that perform to the new standards will get the contracts.
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DavidJ

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Re: Use of force

Post by DavidJ on Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:18 pm

Admin wrote:David. Why not use your experance to help improve the security industry instead of giving up on it as a increasing valuable tool to "assist" policing?  

The standards will increase and so will the duties. The agancies and security guards that perform to the new standards will get the contracts.
Sorry, but it is a delusion that security will or even should be assisting police in any way other than observe and report.

Again, I'll use Ontario as my model.

-police
-special constables
-security guards

Non police special constables (universities, transit, housing) are as close as you will get to quasi police. These special constables are extremely well trained and equipped (minus firearm in most cases) and have peace officer/police authority. Security guards are such a far cry from special constables, let alone police and they have no authority beyond a citizen. Their training - well it is not even close.

Security guards are a disposable insurance scapegoat.  Always have been and will remain just that. You train and equip security guards then there is a cost. A cost in the training, equipment and expected better wages. Customers of contracted security are not going to be willing to pay more.

Guards a disposable in that when something happens at a sight a guard is often sacrificed (fired/place elsewhere) to make a problem appear to go away. If its a big enough issue the client may even ditch the security company. Lookie, problem's fixed.

I prefer to use my experience to help other understand and stay safe. I cannot and will not support want-to-be-ism.

If you look at B.C. where they created an additional full police category (designated police) as an example where special constables no longer fit the bill. Vancouver Transit Police are full fledged police (armed, trained and with all authority). That is the direction ALL provinces should be going. Municipal police, provincial police, designated police and security guards - oh ya, the Mounties is the way it should be. 

Police were created to look after criminal matters that watchmen/guards could no longer deal with. It seems like you want to reverse the process.


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